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標題: 水喉制 [打印本頁]

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 11:41 標題: 水喉制

你地用開邊一款水喉制呢 ?

作者: Eric 時間: 2009-6-25 11:46

HKS EVC is good. have stepping motor.
There is no need for your AW11 as the boost is
very low.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-25 11:53

I think he is enquiring for his Coupe.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 12:12

係呀coupe用...
呢個HDI, $980
http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php ... 3%EF&h_srh_ty=1

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 14:17

hks 19000yen喎

http://page11.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/n71112087

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-25 14:22

I am using cheap cheap cheap mechanical boost controller!

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 14:23

GReddy PRofec平好多, 5250yen
http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w39832512

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 14:42

本帖最後由 Simon 於 2009-6-25 19:42 編輯

電子水喉掣
copied from text book, advance engine technology.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 15:00

Apexi AVC-R 25000yen!!!
http://page2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/b101643773

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 15:03

Blitz SBC 34000yen
http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p154252535

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 19:41

呢一個係16v turbo原裝的EBV氣喉圖.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-25 20:06

本帖最後由 Simon 於 2009-6-25 20:10 編輯

原本佢嘅工作原理係咁
如果EBV未作用時, 工作原理係,
如果EBV未作用時, turbo加壓後氣壓(B)與wastegate(A)接通, 而wastegate在turbo加壓至0.6bar時便會被推開, 代表wastegate只會最多行base boost 0.6bar, 當wastegate打開turbo便會維持在0.6bar的壓力.

而當EBV由電腦控制運作時, turbo加壓後氣壓(B)便會與生氣喉(C)接通, 却去推動wastegate的壓力, 令wastegate去不到0.6bar, 打不開wastegate後, turbo從而可能繼續加壓.

當壓力升至電腦預設上限bar數時, EBV又會將turbo加壓後氣壓(B)與wastegate接通,打開wastegate將turbo壓力控制於指定範圍.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-25 22:00

本帖最後由古惑強於 2009-6-25 23:20 編輯

原厰EBV好可能已經柴柴地！

作者: PuntoPatrick 時間: 2009-6-25 22:41

睇黎coupe個pbv同punto果個一九樣...

作者: AbarthJoe 時間: 2009-6-25 22:44

大家都係同年代快意嘛.

作者: PuntoPatrick 時間: 2009-6-25 22:45

http://www.splparts.com/doc/tech/EBC.htm

呢個係我之前搵到有關ebc既資料

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-26 09:27

如果佢要壞...應該係點呢 ?
我好想解釋下點解我架coupe現時最多得0.8bar
假設極端例子,
如果甩喉, 即係wastegate只連接大氣壓力, 唔會開, 咁bar數應該會谷到爆錶. 現象應該同塞左喉一樣. 即係EBV長開.
如果長接通turbo加壓氣喉, 即係turbo一去到0.6bar, wastegate就會開. 即係EBV長關.

咁... 而家得果0.8bar, 即可能係
1.ebv唔順, 開唔晒, 只係開得少少, 本來想却壓, 但却唔到, 仍有壓力去推開wastegate
2.wastegate條桿頂住閂唔埋, 壓力經bypass走晒

作者: coupeelvin 時間: 2009-6-26 22:44

Find a stock EBV to test first la.... FYI, Mr Kong has wastegate failed months ago.... replaced with wastegate from Saab (by chuen kee)

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-27 00:29

Mr. Crazy is different laa, his turbo is on full boost all the time, so I reckon the wastage must have suicided ages ago!

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-28 22:46

又裝左個機械式水喉制.
好彩有力奇技術支援, 唔係真係嚇一嚇. 整車就多, 不過改車真係好少搞, 唔敢搞.
而家成架車的性格改變左, 好有力, 好肯沖.
濕地唔飛得不過道力好肯上.
我呢幾日會調啱個MAX BAR. 又同時監察個油耗.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-29 08:45

嘩! 好勁呀. 不過隨之而來就係擔心. 典解會咁"標"?

今日測試, 三波5500rpm, 0.5bar. 不過好似勁過以前.
油門反應好敏感, 踩好少已經有力出.完全唔係壞事, 好處係入彎時一扭軚, 車身開始入彎的第一剎那"和油"時turbo已經介入, 好有利出彎時的開油動作.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-29 12:06

本帖最後由古惑強於 2009-6-29 12:07 編輯

其實我乜春都唔識，本來我對機械式水喉掣頗有抗拒，因為機械式水喉掣係完全冇晒油門角度做 modulation ，因為就算係輕腳油門，個 wastage 都係完全關到實，所有死氣係去晒推個渦輪，但原廠EBV真係年事已高柴柴地，上唔到高叭乜濟就十分冇癮，洗o左個EBV兩次好返少少但都唔係幾得，冇計之下唯有聽從臣哥轉用 cheap cheap 機械式水喉掣！嘩！一試難忘，現今雖然知道可以買個全新既EBV，不過個機械式水喉掣又真係幾 raw 同幾狂野，又唔係幾想轉反原裝添！

但係劈入窄彎前轉低波時要小心一點，因為渦輪已經上定晒叭，拖低波扯高轉而激發既突如其來扭力，可能會令到經驗較淺既車手有點手忙腳亂！係慌忙下惦惦個迫力就會去荔園玩咖啡杯o架喇！

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-29 12:32

水喉掣依家o野：

唔試由自可，一試傻諗o左！

作者: PuntoPatrick 時間: 2009-6-29 13:01

我果個cheap cheap水喉掣，攪左好耐都set得吾好，早排駁番原裝個ebv，又開心番晒，其實實際上水喉掣可以超壓之外，可吾可以減lag呢？

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-29 14:20

我果個cheap cheap水喉掣，攪左好耐都set得吾好，早排駁番原裝個ebv，又開心番晒，其實實際上水喉掣可以超壓之外，可吾可以減lag呢？
PuntoPatrick 發表於 2009-6-29 13:01

Your cheap cheap 水喉掣 is the electronic one or the mechanical one?

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-6-29 14:29

I need a boost gauge first.....

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-29 14:48

Get a simple mechanical one as a temporary measure, as all the vacuum pipe works had been put in place by the garage, albeit it was put there by mistake!

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-6-29 15:04

Adrian might be selling me his. Will see.

作者: PuntoPatrick 時間: 2009-6-29 15:04

electronic

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-29 15:26

本帖最後由古惑強於 2009-6-29 18:27 編輯

electronic
PuntoPatrick 發表於 2009-6-29 15:04

Those cheap cheap electronic one are not really that reliable, you are better off to use the factory EBV or a cheap cheap mechnical one for better reliability.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-6-29 18:15

放工後上大山試車, 段段有力, 好揸好多.
不過因為無入油, 殺左一半就鳴金收兵.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-29 18:28

不過因為無入油, 殺左一半就鳴金收兵.
Simon 發表於 2009-6-29 18:15

低Ｂ！

作者: TheBlackCoupe 時間: 2009-6-29 23:41

提示: 作者被禁止或刪除內容自動屏蔽

作者: AbarthJoe 時間: 2009-6-29 23:58

...因為機械式水喉掣係完全冇晒油門角度做 modulation ，因為就算係輕腳油門，個 wastage 都係完全關到實，所有死氣係去晒推個渦輪...

唔明喎。乜原裝個 EBV 會做左咁多野？咁即係話換左機械式水喉掣 Off 波比油都會起 Bar?

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-6-30 00:00

本帖最後由古惑強於 2009-6-30 00:12 編輯

唔明喎。乜原裝個 EBV 會做左咁多野？咁即係話換左機械式水喉掣 Off 波比油都會起 Bar?
AbarthJoe 發表於 2009-6-29 23:58

Interesting, I never try that but I guess it should!

From my very limited understanding, the on-board computer is supposed to monitor the throttle position angle, engine rpm, engine load, air pressure (16v)/ air flow (20v), water / oil temperature and the preset mappings to determine the frequency of the switching of EBV, in order to achieve an in between boost level from base boost up until max boost. Now replaced by a 機械式水喉掣, it has only 1 input parameter which is the built-up air pressure within the inlet manifold pipe, and until it reaches the pre-set limit (max-boost), then pressurized air will be let through the 機械式水喉掣 and push open the wastegate.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-6-30 07:14

Thanks Adrian!

作者: Jason16VT 時間: 2009-6-30 10:31

letsrock, i will bring out the gauge this week, u can take a look 1st
TheBlackCoupe 發表於 2009-6-29 23:41

Only if Adrian come out this week. Have heard that many times before.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-6-30 10:34

Adrian....Back in Black! Look forward to it.

作者: PuntoPatrick 時間: 2009-6-30 11:44

37# 古惑強

我都估空波俾油夠廢氣推郁個turbo就會起bar...吾係點解有Ｄ車空波呼油都會有放氣嘩佬聲？

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-1 19:15

Patrick, 你啱. 空踩都會起bar.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-1 19:17

之前得0.5bar完來駁錯喉.
turbo出壓力喉同wastegate喉掉轉左.

現在bar數有0.9bar.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-7-1 19:39

上返叭、係咪開心晒呢！

16v turbo 行 Max 1.0 ~ 1.1 bar左右。唔好貪心呀！

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-7-1 23:31

我果個cheap cheap水喉掣，攪左好耐都set得吾好，早排駁番原裝個ebv，又開心番晒，其實實際上水喉掣可以超壓之外，可吾可以減lag呢？
PuntoPatrick 發表於 2009-6-29 13:01

I don't think it can help to reduce turbo lag, as the turbo still requires the same rpm to generate the same boost as before, but I guess it would instead improve the spool up time as the 水喉掣 does help to keep the turbine spinning almost all the time. But we do lost all modulation from the factory standard EBV.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-7-1 23:35

There is other type would be a Pressure Bleed Valve, provide that your factory EBV is still working properly, you can install the PBV along the pipe to the turbo actuator, and then set the PBV to raise the base boost from 0.5 bar to 0.6 bar, while retaining the control effect of the factory EBV.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-2 08:53

想想吓, 如果我掉轉左氣喉, 無野輸入去推開wastegate, 我應該有無限叭喎.
力量就好似有無限叭, 不過個bar錶都只係出0.5bar.
有d唔明添.要再唸唸

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-7-2 09:34

本帖最後由古惑強於 2009-7-2 10:09 編輯

有趣，要諗一諗！不過行親無限叭會好難揸同好窒，因為部偈會Misfire到暈，一起叭就會砰砰聲Cut-out到儍！

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-2 09:42

應該如此...
個水喉掣唔係全密封, 雖然波子頂住個底, 但可以過氣, 而過氣的程度, 就等如個wastegate本身的却壓bar 數.
所以, 當時應該等如由turbo出壓力直駁wastegate無分別.

作者: Eric 時間: 2009-7-7 12:09

http://page18.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/w40120395
Anybody interested?

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-7 12:14

好似放血咁.
啱啱個心理先調整左去bid TRD彈弓, 即刻又黎水喉掣...

好想呀....

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-7-8 11:55

Ok to bid for it at low low price, you never know you may get lucky! Don't know whether it comes with manual or not, it would be quite difficult to setup without the manual.

作者: PuntoPatrick 時間: 2009-7-8 11:58

香港都有二手播，點解要日本bid番黎...

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-7-8 11:59

香港都有二手播，點解要日本bid番黎...
PuntoPatrick 發表於 2009-7-8 11:58

It is an addiction.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-7-8 12:06

香港都有二手播，點解要日本bid番黎...
PuntoPatrick 發表於 2009-7-8 11:58

Start bid at JPY980 = HK$80 + handling + shipping, don't think you can find the initial bidding start from so low in HK wow.

作者: Eric 時間: 2009-7-8 12:08

If yo ucan finished bid at 500Yen + shipping + handling, total cost about HK$650.
Should be cheaper than a 2nd hand in HK.

作者: jockey 時間: 2009-7-8 16:22

太舊了.....

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-9 12:22

二代, 新少少, 兩舊.
http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/125510935

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-10 17:02

好舊嘅AVC-R $900.
http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php ... lst_src=par_ico.php

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-16 09:02

http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php ... _vw=1&h_f_ty=h4

$2800

作者: Eric 時間: 2009-7-16 12:20

http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php?h_id=68770&h_url_dsp_src=/par_ico.php&h_vw=1&h_f_ty=h4

$2800
Simon 發表於 2009-7-16 09:02

This is the same one I am using on my R32.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-7-26 18:54

fuel consumption完全無改變, 仍然9.3L/100km.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-7-26 23:07

That is very strange!

作者: AbarthJoe 時間: 2009-7-26 23:10

唔駛腳腳盡，反而慳油左？

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-8-17 13:41

A good explanation here why the manual boost controller make the turbo spools up feel so aggressive vs the standard factory controller.

If the relief valve is placed in the turbo to waste-gate actuator pipe it acts as a boost controller. The relief valve can be adjusted to give the desired boost pressure by simply adjusting the spring pressure. This is done by lengthening (lower the boost) or shortening (increasing the boost) the relief valve. One of the excellent characteristics of a relief valve is the way the boost is controlled. Due to the way the relief valve ‘cracks’ open once the spring pressure has been reached – no air is acting on the waste-gate actuator until this time. This means that the boost is much more aggressive and rises much more quickly than a turbo car without a relief valve. This is because normally a waste-gate actuator actually starts to open the waste-gate at very low boost levels, gradually opening wider as boost rises until it is fully open – at which point maximum boost has been reached. This has the effect of smoothing the boost all the way until maximum boost is reached. Since a relief valve prevents air getting to the wast-gate until the preset boost level is reached maximum boost is reached more quickly making for a more exciting launch.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-8-18 18:14

http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php?h_vw=y&h_id=73035
http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php?h_vw=y&h_id=70852
目標turbo controller

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-8-19 10:40

Rikki, do you still have any mechanical 水喉制? I am picking up Adrian's boost gauge.

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2009-8-19 12:46

Yes, I think I do have a spare one. Will let you know tomorrow.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-8-19 18:04

many thanks!

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-8-19 18:08

http://www.apexi-usa.com/products/Default.asp?id=5356&v=more
原來調校duty-cycle是用來配合不同大小的turbo.
http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php?h_vw=y&h_id=54303

作者: PuntoPatrick 時間: 2009-8-19 18:32

出名難set

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-8-26 14:26

http://www.hks-power.co.jp/products/electronics/boost/5_evc.html
28car舊野, $2500
記住先.

作者: Simon 時間: 2009-10-18 21:48

Let's rock, don't wait for me.
http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php?h_vw=y&h_id=79949
try to knock it down to $2500 for the usual price.
I will buy it around jan.

作者: AbarthJoe 時間: 2009-10-18 22:46

Let's rock, don't wait for me.
http://www.28car.com/par_dsp.php?h_vw=y&h_id=79949
try to knock it down to $2500 for the usual price.
I will buy it around jan.
Simon 發表於 2009-10-18 21:48

I like the 5 sec. trigger... feel like NOS trigger.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-10-19 10:18

thanks Simon.

Joc, which garage would you recommend to have it installed?

作者: letsrock 時間: 2009-10-31 20:39

Damn...it is sold...

作者: Eric 時間: 2010-1-29 17:58

Another chance for HKS EVC, expect bid end at about Yen 30,000.
http://page4.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/d100256168

作者: letsrock 時間: 2010-1-30 07:56

I suppose this is the 4th Gen? Would anyone be able to share what is the difference between the 4th and the 5th other than the display?

作者: Eric 時間: 2010-1-30 08:44

I am using the 4th gen too. Do not kown the difference wor.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2010-2-1 16:07

Thanks Eric,
after discussing with Simon, i think i will pass for now.

Many thanks again.

作者: Eric 時間: 2010-3-5 18:12

http://page12.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/p178092793
This is for A pillar, also with build in Bar digital bar meter.

作者: Simon 時間: 2010-6-16 09:10

Jockey你用呢個ABC,
http://www.arkdesign.co.jp/abc.htm
唔知易唔易裝呢? 控制bar數準唔準?

作者: jockey 時間: 2010-6-16 09:28

Use Greddy ProfecB la!!

作者: Eric 時間: 2010-6-16 12:20

Use Greddy ProfecB la!!
jockey 發表於 2010-6-16 09:28

Yes, easy and reliable, most important, cheap in second hand market.

作者: AbarthJoe 時間: 2010-6-16 13:37

本帖最後由 AbarthJoe 於 2010-6-16 13:40 編輯

Use Greddy ProfecB la!!
jockey 發表於 2010-6-16 09:28

又幾簡單喎, 有埋 real-time, peak or last boost pressure display, 巴錶都慳番.
[attach]1610[/attach]

作者: AbarthJoe 時間: 2010-6-18 01:12

http://page10.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/m77956871

唔知平唔平過香港？

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2010-6-18 02:31

okay wow!

作者: Eric 時間: 2010-6-18 08:43

I just got the same one at $1,500, 2nd hand with original packing.
Installed in my S13.5

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2010-6-18 09:27

Simon, Go! Go! Go!

作者: Simon 時間: 2010-6-18 10:21

Improving brake force is my prime objective of this year.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2010-7-28 06:05

After learning from Anthony, finally understand why i should install one.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2010-7-28 21:38

G reddy vs Apex AVR........tough choice.....

作者: AbarthJoe 時間: 2010-7-29 00:11

G reddy vs Apex AVR........tough choice.....
letsrock 發表於 2010-7-28 21:38

make a facts base comparison la.

作者: Eric 時間: 2010-7-29 08:25

Letrock, I had bided one from Japan:
[attach]1829[/attach][attach]1830[/attach]

作者: Eric 時間: 2010-7-29 08:26

Call me if you need.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2010-7-29 08:46

Eric, many thanks.
I will call you later today to discuss.

作者: letsrock 時間: 2010-7-29 08:48

回復 93# AbarthJoe

Thanks Joe, the issue is that I am looking at practical vs data here. And they sort of lies at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

作者: Simon 時間: 2010-7-30 19:45

http://page15.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/t174861187
Gentleman, start your bidding now.
As Jockey suggest, Use Profec B laaaa

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2010-7-31 17:37

5 hours left!

作者: AbarthJoe 時間: 2010-7-31 22:55

終了 @ 15,500 円

作者: 古惑強 時間: 2010-8-11 18:18

Letsrock, have you decided on the boost controller yet?

作者: letsrock 時間: 2010-8-11 18:54

Just picked up the Greddy today, $2990.

歡迎光臨香港快意討論區 (http://forum.hkfiatclub.com/)